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  • TASCAM DR-100mkII 2-Channel Portable Digital Recorder
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  • The DV Rebel's Guide: An All-Digital Approach to Making Killer Action Movies on the Cheap (Peachpit)
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    by Stu Maschwitz
Monday
Mar152010

The Eagle Has Landed

The 24p firmware update for the Canon 5D Mark II is live on Canon’s site.

September 17, 2008, the day of the 5D Mark II’s announcement, when we first learned of its 30p movie mode:

Remember how I said how stunning it was that Nikon chose 24 fps for the D90’s D-Movies? How it could have so easily been anything else? How if Canon came out with a movie-shooting DSLR that shot 30p I’d be less than thrilled?

Well it’s worse than that. Because a 5D that shot 24p at full HD resolution would have been a very important camera. For Canon to have come so close and botched that one detail is almost unbearable.

Maybe we can get Canon to offer a 24 fps mode in a future firmware update.

Yep, maybe.

 

Reader Comments (52)

First!
Now where is the 7D Audio and histogram update? Rejoice 5D Mk II owners.

March 15, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterJames Benet

In addition to 24p, I loved the increased bitrate from 38 mbps VBR to 44 mbps VBR btw. :-)

Compared to the old 30p @ 38 mbps, it means that if we now shoot at 24p @ 44 mbps, we just gain a 16% more bits per frame. However, since these are 24 frames instead of 30 fps, we have an overall advantage of up to 45%. Now, because these 24 frames are more distinct between them than the 30 frames are (because are captured further apart than each other in a single second), it means that the motion compensation h.264 algorithm that the camera is using will have to work harder.

So overall, *depending* on how much motion there is in each scene, we just gain between 16% and 45% of better quality when selecting to record at 24p instead of 30p. How cool is that? :-)

March 15, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterEugenia

I really wonder how rolling shutter compares against the 7D. That's going to be the big decider for me on whether or not to switch from a 7D. I bought my 7d when it came out and have been careful to only buy full-frame lenses. I'm REALLY wanting to use all these lenses at their native focal lengths. (oh, my 16-35mm f2.8.... I so want you to show me all the glorious ultriawide shots the way you're meant to...)

March 15, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterart chong

Can anyone confirm if the jello effect is better or worse with the new frame rate?

March 15, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterGus

thanks for the heads up i almost forgot about the update completely

March 15, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterkevie

Gus: I Would not hold your breath on the jello issue. That is a much bigger scope issue than a firmware can address.

-gl

March 15, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterGeorge Loch

I've waited since 12/08 for this update, and now that the 24p firmware file is on the CF card and in my camera, I AM HAVING TO CHARGE A BATTERY!!! Oh God help me!

March 15, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterRobert

George, I guess I don't really expect the firmware update to fix the problem. I just remember a discussion going on about how the jello effect might actually be worse at a slower frame rate. I am considering purchasing the 5d mark ii, but I think I will wait if the jello effect is any worse than before.

March 15, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterGus

So, now this firmware is out - what's the consensus? 7D or 5DmkII? Wanna spend the few hard-earned bucks I have wisely...

March 15, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterJo

Jo, if you only have a few bucks to spend, get the 7D (or the Rebel). You're not just buying a camera body, you're buying lenses, cards, and probably some support gear too. The 7D is still a sweet spot of price, quality, and lens options.

March 15, 2010 | Registered CommenterStu

5DMKII Firmware 2.0.3

1/45th shutter in 24p mode!
What happened to 1/48th shutter or even 1/50th shutter?

I guess my choices for 24p are now shooting the hated Collateral trailer Video Look at 1/45 shutter or the Saving Private Ryan opening shot look of 1/60th shutter!
Is this some kind of a joke?

Thanks for nothing Canon!

March 15, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterDark Ruby

Eugenia,

I maybe mistaken, but I think the increase in bitrate might actually be due to the increased audio sampling (44.1 KHz to 48 KHz).

March 15, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterJames P

Dark Ruby, you need to set your exposure increment to 1/3 stop. Then you'll have access to the 1/50 shutter speed. Under C.Fn I:Exposure.

March 15, 2010 | Registered CommenterStu

Thanks Stu.
I guess 1/50th shutter will have to do.
:(

March 15, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterDark Ruby

>the increase in bitrate might actually be due to the increased audio sampling

No, uncompressed audio is nowhere as demanding as 6 mbps, especially not for an additional 4 kHz.

March 15, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterEugenia

I'd be surprised if you could tell the difference between footage shot at 1/48 and 1/50.

March 15, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterGus

Congrats to Stu and everyone here. This really happened.

Now, as I prepare to do ADR for 70% of the film I just shot on the 7D can we please, please start praying for this same upgrade to come to the 7D.

March 15, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterEric Ferguson

Sure, of course you can.

But personally, I won't be spearheading any 7D firmware crusades. I'm delighted with the update to the 5D, but honestly, when Canon released the 7D, I felt they showed that they understood the importance of 24p. When I bought the 7D, I bought it for what it was, not for what it might someday be.

March 15, 2010 | Registered CommenterStu

While the histogram would be interesting for the 7D, I am not sure the new firmware for the 5D is anything that would be significant in making the 7D more worthy. The manual audio seem very limited. For the 5D, the update is mostly about that full-frame goodness filling up a video clip at 24p.

-gl

March 15, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterGeorge Loch

Thanks Stu, and everyone! We won!

March 16, 2010 | Unregistered Commentersergioko

The audio level control and the increased bitrate are a surprise. A good one. Well done Canon. 5d mk ii it is.

March 16, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterStu Mannion

gah! I want the manual audio for my T2i! It'll save my life.

March 16, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterIain

This makes it even tougher to decide, I was just about set on picking up a 7D.

March 16, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterRob Imbs

I have the upgrade instaled but when im in Manual mode for video, it seems to adjust its self? any idea whats going on? I can change the settings in Manual mode but when i hit record it goes into some auto ajusting mode /????
thanks , randy c

March 16, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterrandyc

change your live view to movie only.

March 16, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterwitzke

thanks......

March 16, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterrandyc

Haha Stu, you really have a talent for writing blog posts. Very punchy, to the point, and oddly enough, provokes a certain emotion. Is that weird to say about a blog post? haha Welcome 24p on the 5D. You are most welcome here.

March 16, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterPaul Del Vecchio

Thanks Paul, that's a very nice thing to say.

March 16, 2010 | Registered CommenterStu

Hi Stu,

After updating to the new firmware i started seeing blinking black dots in blown out highlights.

Check out my video on vimeo: http://vimeo.com/10227494

Looks like the same black dots that they had to fix when the camera first came out.. what do you think?

March 17, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterTerje Trobe

Why even shoot in 24p is what i'm thinking? sorry for noob question but I was sitting here looking up the pro's for 24p vs 30p or 60p and it seems like there really aren't any other than "the filmic look" which you get from a dozen other things more important that 24p. at least thats what i've gotten from watching this video here and some google research:

http://vimeo.com/3388256

am I missing something here? sorry if this is a noob question

March 17, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterJay

I´m glad i kept my 5D

March 17, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterjw

I think now the Beachtek audio adapters may be even more handy then they were before. Set the 5D at a certain level, plug in your Beachtek mixer and control the audio from there. That way you can avoid the strange high pitched noise of the AGC disabler (I can actually hear it!) and you have level controls on the outside on actual knobs than in a fiddly menu. Kudos to Canon indeed.

Does make the 7D/5D decision harder though...

March 17, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterJames

Jay, as far as the importance of 24p, it cannot be overstated. Check this out:

http://www.macvideo.tv/camera-technology/interviews/index.cfm?articleId=3213230

March 17, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterTony

So, let's talk about this shutter thing. While yes, it's cutting hairs to say you can shoot at 30, 40, 50, 60th of a second, and wanting to shoot at 24, 30, 48, 60 - I do wish they would have given us the ability to at least shoot the full shutter range!

Or maybe another way to say it... Rather than have 3 modes to select from, it would be nice to have an exposure setting window allowing one to set:

Frames per second: (-60 all the way up to 30 (or 60 if the hardware can do it. The "-60," by the way would be time lapse settings. Anything with a negative becomes time between 1 frame)

Shutter Speed: (Minimum allowed for setting (24/25 at 24 (unless there could be a trick shutter of 12th of a second) up to the camera's limit)

Digital ND filter setting. If there's too much light, wouldn't it just be a simple math solution to cut the light settings in half, or by 25%, etc?

I'm very happy with what I have though. Still wish that rumor of full uncompressed HD from the HDMI port was real - but - what are you going to do?

G

March 17, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterGlen

Hey Stu,

would you say that 25p with 1/50 would look more like film than 24p at 1/50 shutter?

Thanks!

March 17, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterJames

I just went to download the update and it's been pulled from the site. They site problems with it for some users.

http://www.bayareafilmmakers.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/5dmarkII_203popup.jpg

March 17, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterThomas Koch

It seems as the black dot (maybe more purple) problem appears between ISO 640 and ISO 2000

Take a look at my video: http://vimeo.com/10254064

-Terje

March 18, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterTerje Trobe

Black dots and audio problems too. Firmware was pulled, check the press release.

http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/firm-e/eos5dmk2/firmware.html

Arcade Original

March 18, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterArcade Original

Hey Stu,

Now that 5D has 24 p, could you create a quick guide to the pros and cons of 5D v 7D v Rebel v good HD camcorder?

You say that Rebel is equal to 7D in video right? 5D has Full- Frame, which is better for photography? is that right? In your 7D blog, you said it was mostly superior than the 5D, except for the full frame sensor, which is superior in DOF right?

So it seems if you want solely video, you might as well just get the Rebel, because it's much cheaper than the 7D with equal video. But you would be limited with your lens.

For those that really want to get the optimal DOF and lens, then the 5D might be what you want.

Is that about right? Do you still think a DV Rebel should still get a good HD camcorder? why? (panny hmc 150 is your recommendation?)

March 18, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterAlbert

Thanks in advance to all those that provide some guidance!

March 18, 2010 | Registered CommenterAlbert Tsang

@albert: I don't see how you would be "limited with your lens" if you chose a t2i instead of a 7D

the only difference I see, for video, is the body: it's smaller and lighter, and without the weather sealing; apart from that, for video, they are the same

(ok, there are other differences, like the rebel doesn't use CF, only SD, and I the audio capabilities might be limited, but I'm getting an h4n anyway, so nothing to worry about)

March 19, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterNormanBates

hi everybody,

the 2.0.4 firmware has just been released -> to fix the above mentioned bugs. hopefully

http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/firm-e/eos5dmk2/firmware.html

March 19, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterTom T

Thanks Norman,

What I meant is that you would be limited with lens with a 7D or Rebel instead of 5D, since 5D has lens for full frame, and 7D and Rebel use APC-S sensors. I'm I even in the ball park? I just gathered that from previous posts.

What is h4n? Is CF better than SD?

Thanks again!

March 19, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterAlbert

Just a note: The new EOS 550D can record 24 fps (HD) too.

March 19, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterRobert Lechl

As long as we're talking about the T2i's video, I feel I should point out that it does not have color temperature white balance. Not a deal breaker to some, but that's fairly significant if you're used to adjusting your own temp instead of picking from presets like "tungsten" or "day light"

March 19, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterart chong

Stu wrote "I bought the 7D for what it is and not for what it someday may be....."

Stu, the same can be said for when you bought your 5DMII.Yes, the 7D got all the necessary frame rates from the start, but that doesn't mean that manual audio shouldn't have been there from day one! It can be done, as this 5DMII firmware upgrade and Magic Lantern have shown. Of course Canon will fix that issue in an upcoming 7D firmware upgrade. I am absolutely certain of that. Why would they not do that? The question is when.

I think all 7D owners should drop Canon a friendly reminder e-mail that we do care about prefessional audio too.

March 19, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterMarkus

Canon needs to stick their video and photo guys in one room and belike "Work it out"
Come out with a $4000 camera that does EVERYTHING and we're good to go.

March 19, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterBrawk

@albert: ok, I get it now

it's the sensor that's limited on the rebel and the 7D: all the lenses you can use on the 5D can also be used with an APS-C sensor, but the cropping means some 1.6x zoom-in, and not-so-swallow DOF

in fact, the lens limitation goes the other way around: an APS-C sensor will make your nice ful frame 24mm turn into a 38mm, but you can also use cheaper lenses that work on APS-C and not on full-frame (my tamron 17-50 is awesome, and the tokina 11-16 looks great too)

March 20, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterNormanBates

@NormanBates

Minor correction, 7D's Depth of Field is plenty shallow. With the right lenses, it's as shallow as 99% of Hollywood films put out in the last decade (and more). It'd probably be more accurate to say that the DOF is not AS shallow as 5D, not "not-so-shallow".

March 21, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterart chong

I think you guys need to read my 7D article again.

March 21, 2010 | Registered CommenterStu
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